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Worming/parasite prevention/treatment (General Discussion)

by Figment @, CO, Friday, October 21, 2016, 12:38 (153 days ago)

Sorry to ask again, I did look in the articles section, but I cannot seem to find worming/parasite control information for adult guineas.

I have a 10+ year old female who is looking bad currently, clearly losing weight and being chased from the flock. I suspect it could be due to her age but want to treat the flock for parasites (have seen them eat earthworms) more than the DE I have put in their pellets.

Is there an article out there that outlines dosage/kind/frequency/etc for parasite control for guineas? Or could someone please advise.

Thanks a million.

Bigdog's worming article

by Barbara-NH, Friday, October 21, 2016, 15:34 (153 days ago) @ Figment

We often make reference to the article in our May 2008 newsletter written by Bob Kitchell. "Spring Worming Help" can be found on Page 3. Here's a direct link to download that issue of the newsletter: http://guineas.com/articles/newsletters/May2008_GFIAnewsletter.pdf

Some treatments work better in different areas, depending on what types of parasites are more common. I know many people who treat with Valbazen, but I also know many who first treat with Piperazine (Wazine-17 or Wazine-34) and then follow up with Valbazen. Wazine works only on large roundworms, which is the most common type of worm found in most areas. It's what I used to use when I had guineas.

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Anyone used ivermectin liquid in the water?

by Figment @, CO, Friday, October 21, 2016, 18:36 (153 days ago) @ Barbara-NH

Thanks Barbara! I printed it out and have put ivermectin 5cc in a gallon of water. Then I read an article in backyard chickens (http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/worming) and now wondering if I should have used the ivermectin.... I know it tastes bad because I've tried to mix it in my horses' feed and they usually reject it. Just wondering if anyone has had good results with the ivermectin liquid in the water? If so, for how many days did you use it? I only used it because I have it on hand and there were guidelines in BigDog's article. Thanks.

Anyone used ivermectin liquid in the water?

by ChrisCT, Friday, October 21, 2016, 20:02 (153 days ago) @ Figment

You have to careful though...

Ivermectin is such a "broad band" wormer you risk killing all the lg Roundworms (if there) that can potentially kill your birds. The Wazine doesn't kill the roundworms but rather slowly stuns them so they let go and are passed out a little at a time. Killing them all at once might be too much for the bird to handle.

So I did the Wazine for 1 day, twice two weeks apart, and then 10 days later used the Goat wormer Safeguard (Fenbendazole) for another 5.

But that was my routine, not because I suspected a bird might be in crises. Obviously you don't want it to take 3 week from now to be effective. How about a Float Test?

Worming/parasite prevention/treatment

by BennieAndTheJets, Saturday, October 22, 2016, 11:40 (152 days ago) @ Figment

Hi Figment,

My 2 cents: I think Barbara had some excellent points, especially about the fecal float to see what you are dealing with

even at that, sometimes not every worm is shedding eggs all the time, especially if you have a low level infection

I only had to deal with 2 parasites: Gapeworm and Feather/Quill Mites

Both of those hurt my birds to the point where I thought I may lose them and Pinchy almost died and I don't want to tell you here what I ended up spending at the vets'

Anyway - the most effective "poisons" to help my problems were Ivermectin and Fenbendazole

Ivermectin kills almost everything inside and outside the bird - one vet said it may have toxicity for the birds and to be careful but they deal mostly with parrots and I have had no issues so far - say a prayer it stays that way! - I did consult a vet and this book about dosing the Guineas:

https://www.amazon.com/Exotic-Animal-Formulary-James-Carpenter/dp/1437722644/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477146076&a...

this is the book the vet consulted and she shared the page with me on Ivermectin and Guinea Fowl (who are mentioned in there) - I bought the book, even though all you need to know is the dose

I am not saying this is what you should do, or anyone else, but here is what I did:

I used Ivermectin Pour-on for cattle and weighed my Guineas (Yes! I took a kitchen scale and a tupper ware lid and zeroed it and set the bird on top to get a bird body weight - not easy, ha ha)

I used the dose of 0.2 mg/kg of body weight – it is not easy to translate the doses into the doses you need to give because mg and ml and cc need to be considered, as well as lbs and kg etc.

also, the concentration of the product is important – I got the Ivomec brand that contains 5 mg/mL

if you are unsure, I would consult a vet! - they can do the fecal float and help you determine the right dose for your birds

I ended up getting these Syringes:
We ordered these
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FMBRNK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1#customerReviews
but got this kind
https://www.amazon.com/disposable-syringe-without-needle-Pack/dp/B01BM1KRM6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&...

I think they both work

And I used 0.11 to 0.15 ml or cc of the Ivomec (with 5mg/mL concentration)
https://www.amazon.com/047894-Ivomec-Parasiticide-Pour-Cattle/dp/B000HHM3BU/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=14...

making sure to use 0.11 NOT 1.1 – it was a tiny bit, basically about 5 drops of the stuff per bird – I took 0.15 instead of 0.11 because the air bubble in the tip of the syringe was about 1/3 of my dose volume, that’s how little I used per bird – just a few drops, NOT a whole syringe – it was just the tip of the syringe that got filled, just to measure 0.15, most of the syringe was empty

I prepared 5 syringes with the tiny doses at a time and did 5 birds – then took a break and prepared the tiny doses in the 5 syringes again and let everybody calm down a bit (because I had to catch each bird, find a skin spot – usually on the inside of the leg – apply the liquid, and let the bird into the run) everybody was locked in the coop and got released into the run, so I knew that I treated everybody and nobody got two doses by accident (not good because of toxicity)

I did repeat the treatment in 10-14 days because we had a bad case of feather/quill mites

The ivermectin is systemic, meaning that it works throughout the whole body after it gets absorbed – it was the only way to reach the mites inside the quills

Ivermectin does not work against Gapeworm and I used the Safeguard for goats to get rid of Gapeworm: as Bigdog’s article recommends, I used 3 cc in 1 Gal for 3 days – our vet prescribed more for Pinchy and I gave her the Fenbendazole directly into the beak as directed (with more or less success at different days) because she was badly infected – she had lost her voice and had trouble breathing

She also got several antibiotics and recovered, thank God! She is still with us and going strong – I think I let the Gapeworm go too long with her because I did not know what it was and she got secondary infections in her lungs – thank God we were able to save her and now I use Fenbendazole when I see any birds “gaping” and shaking their heads – probably will be spring and fall from now on, dunno yet

Yes, a fecal float test is a great idea

by Barbara-NH, Saturday, October 22, 2016, 14:12 (152 days ago) @ BennieAndTheJets

Not what I had suggested (but should have). It was Chris' suggestion, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's a good idea to test prior to any treatment for worms; but I have never done that with my birds. Yet it makes a lot of sense to know what you are treating.

img: Ooops, sorry Chris

by BennieAndTheJets, Saturday, October 22, 2016, 15:20 (152 days ago) @ Barbara-NH
edited by BennieAndTheJets, Saturday, October 22, 2016, 15:55

I was thinking I read Barbara's post but it was yours

I also liked your idea of being careful with the mass killing of parasites, Barbara - it could hurt the birds - again a float test would give some clues as to how badly infested they are with the parasites

I have a microscope that can see the eggs - but it is not easy to identify them if you have never done it before- I tried with online pictures of eggs at the same magnification factor, but it is not easy to be sure

the vet did one float for us and found nothing

then when Lucky was submitted for necropsy, again the vet said he had no parasites

still I found a few eggs under my microscope, but maybe not a large enough number to worry about it

Pinchy was definitely ill and the feather mites are real - look at this feather - that's what they do:

[image]

[image]

This feather came off Fire's back - he is the closest Pearl Gray in this shot (I got to trim those weeds to prevent foxes/coyotes/coons from hiding in there and stalking the birds - so far so good, but I hang closely with them when they go out, and I need to clear this stuff!, I know)

He does not look so bad from afar but his back is bald when he stands up his feathers to threaten or to clean himself - interestingly, some birds seem unaffected, like the Buff Dundotte walking next to him:

[image]

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what a coincidence!

by Figment @, CO, Saturday, October 22, 2016, 17:36 (152 days ago) @ BennieAndTheJets

Your bird affected was Pinchy. Mine is Binchy... what a crazy coincidence!

Did you use professional fecal float solution? Or make your own with sugar and water or epsom salts and water? Haven't had much luck so far doing a fecal float at home with my microscope. Will keep on trying though.

what a coincidence!

by BennieAndTheJets, Sunday, October 23, 2016, 10:23 (151 days ago) @ Figment

That is funny!

Pinchy is one of my favorite flock members - she is the most aggressive when it comes to treats - she will jump up to my hip when I have the millet tin in my hands to get some - and she will bite into the pile of millet in my hand so hard that she pinches the inside of my hand underneath - hence her name!

I like all that because she leads the flock home when I call them and she trained the babies to eat from my hand and not be so afraid.

Her enthusiasm and lack of fear comes in handy when the others are watching and learning.

About the solution: I used home-made - I don't think it used sugar - just saturated Epsom salts -so I did stir in the salt until it no longer dissolved and the solution had salt crystals on the bottom - it takes quite a bit of salt to get that accomplished - a small jar with less water is helpful if you don't have a huge amount of salt - I used samples from several poo piles and mixed them all in.

This was to test "the flock" not one particular bird, of course.

I did find eggs and some looked like the ones online, but the species of worm is hard to distinguish, I found, since the eggs can have some features that are blurred, depending on their orientation under the microscope, and you don't know what is the best match, I found.

what a coincidence!

by ZoeTX, Monday, October 24, 2016, 11:45 (150 days ago) @ BennieAndTheJets

Interesting and informative topic here. Thanks for sharing. I will mark this conversation for future reference.

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