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Guineas and Barn Flies (General Discussion)

by kim ⌂, Pontotoc, TX, Thursday, July 13, 2017, 13:14 (42 days ago)

Just a quick question.

My barns have auto misters to control flies. I had not taken into consideration the effect this may have on the Keets. The Guinea Keets have not shown any sign of being poisoned or anything but I was curious if there could be a longterm affect, The chemical in the mist is Permethrin.

Is there any known negative consequence by using Permethrin in the area of a Guinea coop?



Guineas and Barn Flies

by service1010, Tucson AZ, Thursday, July 13, 2017, 19:49 (41 days ago) @ kim

For what it's worth, I found this:

As a general rule, dogs, livestock (cattle, sheep, goats, swine), horses, and poultry tolerate permethrin and most synthetic pyrethroids very well, since toxicity is about 1000x higher to insects and other arthropods than to mammals. But in case of sustained skin or inhalation exposure, or after direct contact with open wounds toxicity to mammals can be higher.

If you have barn cats, it says it toxic to cats!

Guineas and Barn Flies

by BennieAndTheJets, Sunday, July 16, 2017, 16:42 (38 days ago) @ service1010

Yeah - be careful with cats! It is toxic to cats, I think, too.

For birds I like to consult a book I saw in a vet office - you can get it on Amazon - it is not cheap but well worth it to me:

I look up chemicals in there, in the bird section - they sometimes list Guinea Fowl - it depends on the available references, i.e. if someone has published research on the chemical with Guineas - the book is great in that it is a collection of most of the available information on chemicals and birds (exotics) for pest control, anesthesia, anti-inflammatory action, treatment of toxicological conditions, nutritional/mineral support, etc. - references are in back, so you can look up the original studies, if desired

Anyway, from what I can see it lists permethrin and piperonyl butoxide / methroprene for use in birds on plumage to control lice, mites, fleas, etc. but says not available for use in the US - also, it may be toxic to keets but not adults - dunno

I would be careful with dosage and frequency - also with creating resistances in the pests you are targeting, if overused - but it is your call

I have resorted to using Front Line on our dogs, even though fipronil is toxic to bees and aquatic live and has a half-life of 125 years (125 years! - half-life!) in the ground - I would rather not use it but can't risk the tick exposure right now - any better ideas welcome!

More on Permethrin - warning

by BennieAndTheJets, Sunday, July 16, 2017, 16:57 (38 days ago) @ BennieAndTheJets

Ha ha - page 244 is the online "look inside" option of the book

Permethrin is on that page

but you can see pages 243 and 245 to give an idea of what the book contains for birds

One more thing: Permethrin is a pretty vicious neuro-toxin, I think, and I have a product that says not to breathe it in or spray it on your clothes while wearing them - to let them dry before you touch them after treatment - so I would be very leery of walking through a barn where the liquid spray is in the air and gets on my skin and in my lungs - you may have to look this up, but here is the product I have that has these cautions on it:

look online on the label in the back...

"Under no circumstances should bare skin or clothing on the body be treated." etc.

More on Permethrin - Warning

by BennieAndTheJets, Saturday, July 29, 2017, 23:49 (25 days ago) @ BennieAndTheJets

This person had neurological symptoms in their dog and I am not surprised

just be careful using this stuff - it is a neurotoxin and not recommended to be sprayed on skin or even clothes while you are wearing them - it is that toxic

I see it advertised to kill mites in the coop but I don't think I want to risk exposing the birds - once it is done and they have damage there is no way back

Guineas and Barn Flies

by kim ⌂, Pontotoc, TX, Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 16:55 (35 days ago) @ kim

Permethrin is referred to as a synthetic pyrethroid insecticide because, while manmade, it resembles naturally-occurring chemicals with insecticidal properties, called pyrethroids.

Pyrethroids are found in chrysanthemums. I tried a chrysanthemum mist a few years back, caused the barns to smell flowery but also attracted bees. And it's not good for bees. So I quit using it. Pyrethroids are one of the oldest classes of organic insecticides known. Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, kills insects by strongly exciting their nervous systems. They quickly paralyze the nervous systems of insects, producing a quick "knockdown" effect on insect pest populations. Permethrin acts as a stomach poison when it is ingested by insects or as a contact poison through direct contact with target pests. It kills adults, eggs, and larvae, and has a slight repellent effect against insects.

Well my barn cats have never had any issues, I'm using a pretty low percentage anyway. My barns are misted every hour for 30 seconds. I have had no issues with horses, goats, dogs, cats or humans. I just did not have any experience with Guinea Fowl so I wondered if anyone else had. I'm pretty sure my birds will be just fine.

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